Baha'i Library Forum :: View topic - 2 topics: aliens/destruction of the BWC areas

dgk_p19

I almost hate to ask this .... but it came up in conversation.

Is there a Pilgrim's Note where Abdu'l-Baha is supposed to have said something about flying saucers? (landing at the BWC, supposedly)

Also, I read a Pilgrim's Note the other day -- Baha'u'llah is supposed to have said "all this will be destroyed... [people will want to replace these steps with] gold and silver bricks" in the garden.

I have read this before in other places too (where He says they will want to coat the inside of the Shrine with diamonds) ...

but I was wondering -- WHY build all that if it's just going to be destroyed? What's the point?

I don't want any controversy, just some plain talk about these subjects.

lachen

d

Sen McGlinn

There are masses of rumours and pilgrim's notes claiming the most absurd things: David Piff wrote a dissertation about them, and part of his results are published in Bahai Lore - distributed I think by George Ronald. As a general rule of thumb, if something sounds silly, it is silly

dgk_p19

well, I wouldn't say the destruction of parts of Israel sound all that silly given the current world conditions.

british_bahai

i came across this and i thought it was appropriate.
(Source: http://bahai-library.com/uhj/sabeans.etc.html)
(I have added colour so that it is easier when skim-reading.
If any of the moderators think that the formatting could be improved, feel free to edit zwinkern

)
---

3. UFOs, Alien Abduction and Genetic Engineering

Mr. García refers to a book entitled Abduction, written by a Harvard psychiatrist, Dr. John Mack, which posits that

... alien beings of a vastly superior intelligence, who are possibly from other planets or dimensions, or from our own distant future, have been conducting genetic experiments on unwilling humans to produce a crossbreed between humans and aliens (reportedly to repopulate our planet with a more peaceful species after we destroy ourselves).

Mr. García comments on the popularity of this topic and mentions that a number of Bahá'ís claim to have had experiences similar to those associated with abduction by aliens. He requests guidance concerning how to respond to such matters.

The Bahá'í Teachings do not deal specifically with the subjects of alien abduction and genetic engineering. The following extracts concerning unidentified flying objects might be of assistance to Mr. García:

There is nothing in the Teachings about spaceships; and the Guardian does not feel this is a subject on which he can offer the friends any advice whatsoever. Indeed, to be frank, he is so busy with the work of the Cause that he seldom has time to devote much thought to speculation of this nature, however fascinating it may be.

(From a letter dated 15 February 1957 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to several believers)

As you rightly state, Bahá'u'll'áh affirms that every fixed star has its planets, and every planet its own creatures. The House of Justice states however, that it has not discovered anything in the Bahá'í Writings which would indicate the degree of progress such creatures may have attained. Obviously, as creatures of earth have managed to construct space probes and send them into outer space, it can be believed that creatures on other planets may have succeeded in doing likewise.

Regarding the attitude Bahá'ís should take toward unidentified flying objects, the House of Justice points out that they fall in the category of subjects open to scientific investigation, and as such, may be of interest to some, but not necessarily to everyone. In any case, Bahá'ís have a fundamental obligation at this stage of the development of the earth's people, that is, the responsibility of spreading the unifying Message of Bahá'u'll'áh.

(From a letter dated 11 January 1982 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer)

british_bahai

In my first post (see above) I didnt want to add any underlines or bolden any part of the paragraph because that would just be my own opinion of what is the most important sentence. But I do think that we should note the following:

Sen McGlinn

Zazaban

I'd like to see these silly pilgrim's notes, they sound like a hoot zunge zeigen

dgk_p19

See at bahai-lib.com

Utterances of our Blessed Master, 'Abdu'l-Bahá,
in His exact Words, revealed to three pilgrims;
Thomas Breakwell of England, Herbert Hopper (an American) from Paris,
and Isabella D. Brittingham of America, September, 1901
Including
A Conversation with Abu'l-Qasim, the Gardener of the Ridvan

there are some interesting miracles described in there as well.

lachen

dgk_p19

btw -- i work sometimes 12 hours a day for the faith, so once in a while i need a happy/interesting break.

dgk_p19

besides.....

it is not the job of an individual to suggest that a person not study something interesting to them and 'concentrate on spreading the Baha'i teachings' (apparently 100% of their waking hours).

I recently sense a feeling of rigidity at times: "conform to this idea or else".

That kind of uniformity of thought, and attempts to foster conformity to one way of thinking, is clearly not what Baha'u'llah intended for His followers!

He indicated that we are to search for truth for ourselves and not to simply go with what is currently popular or what is forced upon us by another (whether that be an individual or a group of people)

Of course the Universal House of Justice could tell me something and I would believe it true even if it did make me wonder. The wisdom behind such things can often come clear once enough meditation is undertaken and assistance for understanding is requested in prayer (some things will probably remain a mystery)

see with your own eyes and not through the eyes of another.

british_bahai

dgk_p19: are u talking to me?

dgk_p19

absolutely not .... just venting -- no individual in particular, just a feeling I get sometimes..... trying so hard to live in this difficult and trying world, seeing things I wish were different, feeling frustrated that all humans won't just wake up and "get it" before it's too late.....

etc, etc, etc.

much love,
d

dgk_p19

after I clicked 'submit' it came to me that what is really bothering me is a statement from Shoghi Effendi where he is asked 'will all the good people on earth be destroyed along with the bad", and he says, esentially, 'there are no good people on earth'.

this really gave me a lot of internal pain because I have spent my entire life (ok, most of it) trying to be a "good person".

Sen McGlinn

This is another example of the unnecessary confusion and agitation that the Bahais put themselves through by putting reliance on pilgrim's notes and hearsay. Such a bitter and uncharaitable and pessimistic sentiment could never have come from the lips of Shoghi Effendi: it tells us about the mental condition of the people who make up these 'reports.'

Here, for example, is the genuine Shoghi Effendi speaking:

Deplore loss of much-loved, greatly admired Juliet Thompson, outstanding, exemplary handmaid of 'Abdu'l-Bahá. Over half-century record of manifold, meritorious services, embracing the concluding years of Heroic and opening decades of Formative Ages of Bahá'í Dispensation, won her enviable position in the glorious company of triumphant disciples of the beloved Master in the Abha Kingdom. Advise hold memorial gathering in Mashriqu'l-Adhkar to pay befitting tribute to the imperishable memory of one so wholly consecrated to the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh, and fired with such consuming devotion to the Center of His Covenant.
(December 6, 1956, Citadel of Faith, p. 170)

dgk_p19

Yes, what you say is probably true Sean.....

Maybe I should qualify the fact that I am even reading stuff like this at all---it is not by choice, but an inherent part of my work.

So I suppose what you are saying is that if I cannot keep from having to read such things, I should do my best to remember that the chance someone actually said those words is suspicious, and very possibly not true at all.

We really have no best way of knowing 100% of the time.

There is a Tablet that discusses the Maid of Heaven coming down here and seeing that there was not one worthy soul on earth, then repairing back to her abode. (Fire Tablet of Tablet of the Mariner?)

Sen McGlinn

It may be this, in the Suriy-ye Haykal:

"O Maid of inner meanings! Step out of the chamber of utterance by the leave of God, the Lord of the heavens and the earth. Reveal, then, thyself adorned with the raiment of the celestial Realm, and proffer with thy ruby fingers the wine of the heavenly Dominion, ...
Grieve not if none be found to accept the crimson wine proffered by Thy snow-white hand and to seize it in the name of Thy Lord ... Leave this people unto themselves, and repair unto the Tabernacle of majesty and glory, wherein Thou shalt encounter a people whose faces shine as brightly as the sun in its noontide splendour, and who praise and extol their Lord
(Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 12)

61. O SON OF MAN!
A dewdrop out of the fathomless ocean of My mercy I have shed upon the peoples of the world, yet found none turn thereunto, inasmuch as every one hath turned away from the celestial wine of unity unto the foul dregs of impurity, and, content with mortal cup, hath put away the chalice of immortal beauty. Vile is that wherewith he is contented.
(Persian Hidden Words)

brettz9

Hi all,

I might just chime in that we could also emphasize the passage differently here:

"Regarding the attitude Bahá'ís should take toward unidentified flying objects, the House of Justice points out that they fall in the category of subjects open to scientific investigation, and as such, may be of interest to some,..."

While I think we should not have difficulty in finding what the main thrust of the passage is saying (focus on the work of the Faith), and if this were becoming an interminable discussion maybe it would be more appropriate to emphasize that part, I find we really have to very carefully read the passage and play "God's advocate" (since differences are of God, not the "Devil" and lead us to an understanding which conduces to the most unity) for the nuance that it holds.

Brett


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