hello you guys,
so i have a lot of questions. i know i haven't been here in a while, but tonight i just decided to research the baha'i faith, and decided i would ask some questions.
1. was the Bab and Bahaullah persecuted? how? and what took place during that time?
2. what is proof that the baha'i faith is the true faith?
3. what do you guys think of anti baha'i sites? (like several shia islamic anti baha'i sites.) do you guys read them, or just ignore them? could you rebutt them if you tried?
4. more personal - are you a born baha'i, or a convert? what religion did you come from?
God bless!
general questions about the prophets
I'm actually rather suprised that somebody who's been a member of this site for so long knows so little about the Baha'i faith.
1.The Báb was actually exectued for his teachings. You can find out more by looking at Baha'i history.
2. look here: http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/index.htm
3. Baha'is aren't really supposed to go to anti-Baha'i sites. I went to a CB site once by accident and am frankly sorry I did.
4. Not yet Baha'i, probably will be in the near future. From Buddhism.
1.The Báb was actually exectued for his teachings. You can find out more by looking at Baha'i history.
2. look here: http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/index.htm
3. Baha'is aren't really supposed to go to anti-Baha'i sites. I went to a CB site once by accident and am frankly sorry I did.
4. Not yet Baha'i, probably will be in the near future. From Buddhism.
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.
~ Bahá'u'lláh
~ Bahá'u'lláh
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3. what do you guys think of anti baha'i sites? (like several shia islamic anti baha'i sites.) do you guys read them, or just ignore them? could you rebutt them if you tried?
We are told to avoid covenant breaker websites, or websites from enemies of the Baha'i Faith (just to warn you, there are some users on this forum who have links on their profiles to anti-Baha'i websites, though usually they are sometimes well-disguised). Baha'u'llah says:
"O SON OF DUST!
Beware! Walk not with the ungodly and seek not fellowship with him, for such companionship turneth the radiance of the heart into infernal fire."
Their words are compared to venom in the Baha'i Writings, and their sole aim is disunity—whereas the Baha'i Faith tries to build unity.
So generally Baha'is (or even those investigating) shouldn't concern themselves with covenant breakers or their attacks, unless it's to refute them. It is a very noble thing in the Baha'i Faith to defend it against its enemies though, but like anything else it should always be done tactfully.
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But it's a very lousy idea. I learned that the hard way.pilgrimbrent wrote:Baha'is are strongly warned against, but not forbidden, to read Covenant breaker material.
Baha'is are not discouraged from reading or responding to materials critical of the Baha'i Faith.
I can provide direct quotes with references if desired.
Brent
Justice and equity are twin Guardians that watch over men. From them are revealed such blessed and perspicuous words as are the cause of the well-being of the world and the protection of the nations.
~ Bahá'u'lláh
~ Bahá'u'lláh
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>> But it's a very lousy idea. I learned that the hard way.>>
I think that's an important point. While in principle, dealing with anti-Baha'i material falls under the general guidance about defending the Cause, there is a time for this. Baha'u'llah cautions us to protect our faith, and that includes reading material that strengthens it, not weakens it. If you're too young in faith, that kind of material can weaken your faith; if you're strong, the same material makes your faith stronger. It's the same with physical health. You have to see what you can handle, and stay within those bounds.
My point is that it is *never* a good idea to read Covenant-breaker materials, but there are times when responding to critics of the Baha'i Faith is the right thing to do.
Thank you
Brent
I think that's an important point. While in principle, dealing with anti-Baha'i material falls under the general guidance about defending the Cause, there is a time for this. Baha'u'llah cautions us to protect our faith, and that includes reading material that strengthens it, not weakens it. If you're too young in faith, that kind of material can weaken your faith; if you're strong, the same material makes your faith stronger. It's the same with physical health. You have to see what you can handle, and stay within those bounds.
My point is that it is *never* a good idea to read Covenant-breaker materials, but there are times when responding to critics of the Baha'i Faith is the right thing to do.
Thank you
Brent
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before i declared i googled for debunk bahai. what a joke. i spent 20 min trying find somthing that was of substance to know avail. lucky for me i had already educated myself. i found that i, as a reasonable person was able to debunk most(98%) of the so called debunk. the rest seemed like name calling or just sillyness. imHo. it was a waste of time.
the first thing to know about the faith is you have to investigate. the leg work pays off. if you have found the faith you have done something very special and your reward is the devlopment of your understanding of all things. true faith is something that calls from the inside. the writtings help you lend an ear. reasearch the proofs, research history, research the solutions for mankind, recognize the fruits. you will know without having to be told, it will be as clear to you as the noonday sun.
i am sure that there are many a fine fellow on this board that can direct you to the best possible reading resources. join a ruhi course, you don't have to be a bahai to take part. i am sure there is a study circle near you
4. more personal - are you a born baha'i, or a convert? what religion did you come from?
buhddism
the first thing to know about the faith is you have to investigate. the leg work pays off. if you have found the faith you have done something very special and your reward is the devlopment of your understanding of all things. true faith is something that calls from the inside. the writtings help you lend an ear. reasearch the proofs, research history, research the solutions for mankind, recognize the fruits. you will know without having to be told, it will be as clear to you as the noonday sun.
i am sure that there are many a fine fellow on this board that can direct you to the best possible reading resources. join a ruhi course, you don't have to be a bahai to take part. i am sure there is a study circle near you
4. more personal - are you a born baha'i, or a convert? what religion did you come from?
buhddism
Baha'i Warrior wrote:We are told to avoid covenant breaker websites, or websites from enemies of the Baha'i Faith (just to warn you, there are some users on this forum who have links on their profiles to anti-Baha'i websites, though usually they are sometimes well-disguised).
Of course, you are told to avoid covenant breaker web sites and anti-bahai web sites. And all this from the people who say that their principle is "Independent Investigation of Truth"
Regards
Imran Shaykh
http://www.bahaiawareness.com
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>>Of course, you are told to avoid covenant breaker web sites and anti-bahai web sites. And all this from the people who say that their principle is "Independent Investigation of Truth">>
Baha'is are strongly discouraged, but not forbidden, to read Covenant-breaker websites. I know of no admonition to avoid websites stating they are "anti-Baha'i". Please show me such an admonition. If you present the Baha'i Faith based on its teachings, and not on what some Baha'is say the teachings are, you will get a somewhat different and more accurate picture.
For example there is no statement in the Baha'i Writings attempting to integrate or reconcile the teachings of Krishna with those of the Qur'an. The Qur'an is viewed as "an absolutely authentic repository of the Word of God" in the official Baha'i teachings. As far as Krishna, He is mentioned because He still has followers in the world. Likewise with Buddha, though Abdu'l-Baha said that the Buddhist Writings are not authentic. Their teachings have been changed by man over the course of time, and Their original scriptures lost. However, we do know that they all promised to return; and this return is not the same person with the same body and name, but the same spirit and power, the same mission and station, in the form of a new Prophet of God. However, that does not mean that we accept their teachings. For example, the official Baha'i Writings state that no Manifestation of God has ever taught reincarnation. So even though Buddhists and Hindus believe in it, the Baha'i Writings state that Krishna and Buddha never taught it.
Since you have set yourself to oppose the Baha'i Faith, please deal with the Writings themselves, not with the opinions of Baha'is.
I will be glad to provide the references for what I say above comes from the Baha'i Teachings, when I return from my trip out of state. Likewise your question about the books of Hadith.
Brent Poirier
Baha'is are strongly discouraged, but not forbidden, to read Covenant-breaker websites. I know of no admonition to avoid websites stating they are "anti-Baha'i". Please show me such an admonition. If you present the Baha'i Faith based on its teachings, and not on what some Baha'is say the teachings are, you will get a somewhat different and more accurate picture.
For example there is no statement in the Baha'i Writings attempting to integrate or reconcile the teachings of Krishna with those of the Qur'an. The Qur'an is viewed as "an absolutely authentic repository of the Word of God" in the official Baha'i teachings. As far as Krishna, He is mentioned because He still has followers in the world. Likewise with Buddha, though Abdu'l-Baha said that the Buddhist Writings are not authentic. Their teachings have been changed by man over the course of time, and Their original scriptures lost. However, we do know that they all promised to return; and this return is not the same person with the same body and name, but the same spirit and power, the same mission and station, in the form of a new Prophet of God. However, that does not mean that we accept their teachings. For example, the official Baha'i Writings state that no Manifestation of God has ever taught reincarnation. So even though Buddhists and Hindus believe in it, the Baha'i Writings state that Krishna and Buddha never taught it.
Since you have set yourself to oppose the Baha'i Faith, please deal with the Writings themselves, not with the opinions of Baha'is.
I will be glad to provide the references for what I say above comes from the Baha'i Teachings, when I return from my trip out of state. Likewise your question about the books of Hadith.
Brent Poirier
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Pilgrimbrent said: "Since you have set yourself to oppose the Baha'i Faith, please deal with the Writings themselves, not with the opinions of Baha'is." He is right about that. What I said doesn't necessarily reflect the true Baha'i position if it can't be backed up by quotes. (I have said before, by the way, that we can read covenant breaker material if it is to refute what they say, i just didn't modify my last post above.)
The reason for avoiding covenant breakers and covenant breaker-arguments by ex baha'is, etc., is because the words are like spiritual contagion (see quotes below). I think it's very clear that covenant breakers and their writings should be avoided, hence 'Abdu'l-Baha: "And now, one of the greatest and most fundamental principles of the Cause of God is to shun and avoid entirely the Covenant-breakers, for they will utterly destroy the Cause of God, exterminate His Law and render of no account all efforts exerted in the past." But we can still read what they say in order to refute it...thus we still maintain the principle of "Independent Investigation of Truth."
There is no excuse for believers continuing to associate with ... and those who, knowing everything, still insist on doing so, should be shunned by their fellow-Baha'is. The same applies to people who have left the Cause and associate with ... The point is that if the believers know and meet with people who are acquainted with Covenant-breakers there is no harm in this, for such individuals are not Baha'is and have nothing to do with the issues concerned. But those who have left the Cause, knowing all about such matters, and deliberately associate with Covenant-breakers, are well aware of what they do, and we must not associate with them at all. It is for the Local Assembly, guided by the National Spiritual Assembly, to enforce such decisions and the Cause in its area of jurisdiction.
The friends should, without too much dwelling on these negative things, be made to understand that some people are spiritually sick and that their disease is, alas, contagious. Some recover from it, as did ... whose heart could not rest till he returned to the fold; others do not. The Master and Baha'u'llah have taught us that associating with these souls is not likely to heal them at all, but on the contrary exposes one to grave danger of contagion. The history of the Faith has proved this over and over again.
The only way we can prove to such people that they are wrong is to censure their conduct; if we sympathize with them we only fortify their perversity and waywardness.
(From a letter dated 23 January 1945 written on behalf of the Guardian to individual believer)
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27 October 1997 Dear Bahá'í friend,
Your letter dated 4 July 1997 concerning the situation in ... and occasions of Covenant-breakers' participating on America Online was passed by Mr. xxxx to the Universal House of Justice, which has considered the situation described. We are to reply as follows.
The House of Justice feels that, when Bahá'ís are teaching in an online "chat room" and Covenant-breakers intrude upon the discussion, the friends should not feel obliged to sign off simply because Covenant-breakers are present in this virtual space. They should, however, refrain from knowingly engaging the Covenant-breakers in discussions and, in any case, should avoid being drawn into contentious or disputatious situations.
With Loving Bahá'í greetings,
For Department of the Secretariat
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It is better not to read books by Covenant-breakers because they are haters of the Light, sufferers from a spiritual leprosy, so to speak. But books by well-meaning yet unenlightened enemies of the Cause can be read so as to refute their charges.
(From a letter dated 19 March 1946 written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer)
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With respect to your concerns about your own contact with Covenant-breakers, you should feel no trepidation at having to interact with them in his particular situation and, if necessary, to read their postings. It is suggested, however, that your contact with them be kept to a minimum, as strictly required by your obligations as Forum manager. You will want to resist any temptation to be drawn into discussions or consideration of the arguments which they may advance.
(From a letter dated 28 May 1998 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual)
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Participation by enemies of the Faith or members of Covenant-breaker groups may, indeed, occur in the dialogue on electronic forums. It is not advisable for the institutions of the Faith or its individual members to become directly involved in such discussion. It is neither wise nor possible to interfere with postings on public forums, but if it is observed that such activity is taking place on Bahá'í-only forums National Assemblies should be alerted so that they may provide appropriate advice to the administrator of the forum. The greatest protection to the Faith will not be through intervention on either open or closed electronic forums, but through ongoing deepening of the Bahá'í community in the Covenant and the history and Teachings of the Faith.
(From a letter dated 24 February 1995 written by the International Teaching Centre to a Continental Board of Counsellors)
The reason for avoiding covenant breakers and covenant breaker-arguments by ex baha'is, etc., is because the words are like spiritual contagion (see quotes below). I think it's very clear that covenant breakers and their writings should be avoided, hence 'Abdu'l-Baha: "And now, one of the greatest and most fundamental principles of the Cause of God is to shun and avoid entirely the Covenant-breakers, for they will utterly destroy the Cause of God, exterminate His Law and render of no account all efforts exerted in the past." But we can still read what they say in order to refute it...thus we still maintain the principle of "Independent Investigation of Truth."
There is no excuse for believers continuing to associate with ... and those who, knowing everything, still insist on doing so, should be shunned by their fellow-Baha'is. The same applies to people who have left the Cause and associate with ... The point is that if the believers know and meet with people who are acquainted with Covenant-breakers there is no harm in this, for such individuals are not Baha'is and have nothing to do with the issues concerned. But those who have left the Cause, knowing all about such matters, and deliberately associate with Covenant-breakers, are well aware of what they do, and we must not associate with them at all. It is for the Local Assembly, guided by the National Spiritual Assembly, to enforce such decisions and the Cause in its area of jurisdiction.
The friends should, without too much dwelling on these negative things, be made to understand that some people are spiritually sick and that their disease is, alas, contagious. Some recover from it, as did ... whose heart could not rest till he returned to the fold; others do not. The Master and Baha'u'llah have taught us that associating with these souls is not likely to heal them at all, but on the contrary exposes one to grave danger of contagion. The history of the Faith has proved this over and over again.
The only way we can prove to such people that they are wrong is to censure their conduct; if we sympathize with them we only fortify their perversity and waywardness.
(From a letter dated 23 January 1945 written on behalf of the Guardian to individual believer)
----------------
27 October 1997 Dear Bahá'í friend,
Your letter dated 4 July 1997 concerning the situation in ... and occasions of Covenant-breakers' participating on America Online was passed by Mr. xxxx to the Universal House of Justice, which has considered the situation described. We are to reply as follows.
The House of Justice feels that, when Bahá'ís are teaching in an online "chat room" and Covenant-breakers intrude upon the discussion, the friends should not feel obliged to sign off simply because Covenant-breakers are present in this virtual space. They should, however, refrain from knowingly engaging the Covenant-breakers in discussions and, in any case, should avoid being drawn into contentious or disputatious situations.
With Loving Bahá'í greetings,
For Department of the Secretariat
-------
It is better not to read books by Covenant-breakers because they are haters of the Light, sufferers from a spiritual leprosy, so to speak. But books by well-meaning yet unenlightened enemies of the Cause can be read so as to refute their charges.
(From a letter dated 19 March 1946 written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer)
------
With respect to your concerns about your own contact with Covenant-breakers, you should feel no trepidation at having to interact with them in his particular situation and, if necessary, to read their postings. It is suggested, however, that your contact with them be kept to a minimum, as strictly required by your obligations as Forum manager. You will want to resist any temptation to be drawn into discussions or consideration of the arguments which they may advance.
(From a letter dated 28 May 1998 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual)
-----
Participation by enemies of the Faith or members of Covenant-breaker groups may, indeed, occur in the dialogue on electronic forums. It is not advisable for the institutions of the Faith or its individual members to become directly involved in such discussion. It is neither wise nor possible to interfere with postings on public forums, but if it is observed that such activity is taking place on Bahá'í-only forums National Assemblies should be alerted so that they may provide appropriate advice to the administrator of the forum. The greatest protection to the Faith will not be through intervention on either open or closed electronic forums, but through ongoing deepening of the Bahá'í community in the Covenant and the history and Teachings of the Faith.
(From a letter dated 24 February 1995 written by the International Teaching Centre to a Continental Board of Counsellors)
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Re: general questions about the prophets
kjf512 wrote:4. more personal - are you a born baha'i, or a convert? what religion did you come from?
I would just like to say that in the Bahai Faith, we believe that you arent "born a Bahai", just because your parents are.
Each person has the choice of investigating whatever religion they choose to follow
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Bahais believe that religion cannot be forced onto someone. This is one of the main principles of our faith
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Re: general questions about the prophets
Well, but the question being asked is, were you raised in a Baha'i home; were your parents Baha'i, or did you strike out on your own and find the Baha'i Faith as a result of search?
Brent
Brent