Justice ... a free for all ??

[onepence]

O SON OF SPIRIT!

The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice;


such are some of the most famous lines ever uttered by Baha'u'llah ...
so I thought it might be reasonable to open up a discussion thread upon this topic ... Justice ... what it means to you

Do you seek and demonstrate personal Justice ... in what ways ???
or are you always turning the other cheeck ???

Me ... i think about roles ... I am a stay at home Dad ... my wife is a RN ... my role/responseablity is always to take care of Tyler ... if my wife's paycheck is bleak I eat tuna fish and my son eats gerber baby food ... Justice ...

Sometimes I do not like American views ... so rigidly defined along material/borders ... my view is everyone who wants to be an American should be allowed to be an American, whether born on the continent or not ... Justice

a servant to the members of The Universal House of Justice
the apostle dean

[Zazaban]

I agree, I think the American Ideal is so selfish.

[Baha'i Warrior]

Sometimes I do not like American views ... so rigidly defined along material/borders ... my view is everyone who wants to be an American should be allowed to be an American, whether born on the continent or not ... Justice

I see what you are trying to say. But that isn't enough, someone just wanting to become an American. An obvious example is letting terrorists into the country. If the U.S. let everyone and was not so discriminative then surely heads would role (literally) and get blown up (pardon my hallows humor ). There are surely some that enter the U.S. with sinister intentions. We can't deny this fact, especially considering recent events in the news. Apart from security issues like that, I'm sure there are other reasons for such strict regulations, and, yes, there are probably what we could refer to as some unjust reasons for not letting others in.

But...looking at the bigger picture...everyone deserves to have basic things like a house, electricity, adequate food, etc. It is unjust that we Americans are gorging ourselves with tons of food (like at buffets) and also throwing away tons of food, when so many children in the world are starving. Here, we are trying to lose weight, whereas there, they are trying to gain it. We don't need so much food, so many TVs, computers, electronics, etc. Imagine how many billions of dollars go into the movie industry alone! with so many worthless and repulsive movies! The budget for one of these films could feed entire villages in Africa! It seems like we just care about ourselves, and as long as we go to bed satisfied and stuffed we are happy, and carefree.

Do you seek and demonstrate personal Justice ... in what ways ???

Justice can cover a broad range of things. For example, tyranny is a form of injustice, and it isn't limited to a dictator killing or oppressing others. We ourselves can be tyrannical in our actions.

As far as acting just, there are many things that happen in a day where you can act justly or unjustly. For example, someone could deny his child food and beat him every time he cried, that would certainly be unjust. Also it would be unjust to let him have his way all the time, because he'll act that way toward authority in the future. So somewhere inbetween is what I'd call justice. Also, another example is if a teenager gives you the wrong change (too much) you should give him back the extra change. Small things like that that happen to you during the day. Of course if your have great influence as a person then your responsibilities of being just toward other people (or groups of people) becomes even greater.

or are you always turning the other cheeck.

It's wrong to always turn the other cheek. It is wrong to let others take advantage of you. Because if you let someone act unjustly toward you, then he will act unjustly toward others also. (Can anyone locate this story because it would be relevant?) The Bab sent one of His servants to buy some honey and it turns out that the person who sold the honey charged too much, and so the Bab sent the servant back to get the rest of the money.

Because what is the big deal of losing some money? The problem is that the person that acts unjustly toward you is hurting himself by being unjust, and to a certain degree you are hurting yourself by letting the injustice to occur.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

Of course—obviously—in certain situations you cannot act to reverse an injustice, so you have to take into account the context, etc.

Sorry if some of my thoughts may have been random and not entirely relevant to the discussion or did not directly answer your question. Always appreciate feedback..

[onepence]

awesome job well done Baha'i Warrior ... exactly the type of commentary/thought/writing I was hoping to find/read ... wow ... free for all in a good and proper sense ... and yes I do recall the storyof the Bab and His servants honey ... ...

I always think it funny how Americans think in terms of boundaries ... this is my/our/american territory ... so very very materialisticly thinking ... and perhaps that was what Zazaban was thinking when he wrote "the American Ideal is so selfish" , but I really don't know what he meant, for I don't think the American Ideal is selfish, but I can understand how one could say the American Ideal as executed by those who are not Baha'is in good standing is selfish ... big difference

and btw ... i am not advocating an open border stance ... far from it ... i recognize that there are plenty of enemies of the Faith ... what I am sayin is that it would be acceptable {to me} if a person living in Poland, or any other country, would like to have themselves viewed/registered as an American of polish nationality ... of course my personal views mean nothing ... though sometimes when I think of the Divine Plan and how Baha'u'llah praised acts of unity and the joyous rapture of sacrifice not to mention the ultimate Beauty of reciprocal effects ... it's like wow ...

The following is my personal story of Justice for today ... I have recently decided to attend auctions ... went online to my local newspaper ... under classifieds typed in the word "Auction" and hit the search button ... in my local there are auctions almost everyday ... mainly storage places, but they only publize like two weeks out/not the week of so you gotta write it down ... anyway ... chatted with a few people ... didn't buy anything ... mentioned the Baha'i Faith to a retired police officer ... He smiled at the concept of a World Federation and new it was about a thousand years away ... smile ... in the end we both new that being American meant to keep hope alive ... smile ... we chatted about this and that ... and as we were chatting ... {here comes my big act of justice I am sharing with y'all today} ... a guy approaches the door I was standing by with a dolly ... all of a sudden it occurred to me to open up the door for the guy ... and so I did ... smile ... and lol that is my big story of Justice for today ... lol ... I opened up a door and held the door open for another individual ... didn't have to do it, but it made me and the other guy coming in smile ... now I am not sure if that was an act of Justice or just plain curtesy, but either way it was pleasing enough that mention of it was made on this thread ... stupid little things sometimes are pretty cool ... I think part of Justice is curtesy

so ... anybody else have any thoughts about Justice ...

oneness
dh

[Baha'i Warrior]

The following is my personal story of Justice for today ... I have recently decided to attend auctions ... went online to my local newspaper ... under classifieds typed in the word "Auction" and hit the search button ... in my local there are auctions almost everyday ... mainly storage places, but they only publize like two weeks out/not the week of so you gotta write it down ... anyway ... chatted with a few people ... didn't buy anything ... mentioned the Baha'i Faith to a retired police officer ... He smiled at the concept of a World Federation and new it was about a thousand years away ... smile ... in the end we both new that being American meant to keep hope alive ... smile ... we chatted about this and that ... and as we were chatting ... {here comes my big act of justice I am sharing with y'all today} ... a guy approaches the door I was standing by with a dolly ... all of a sudden it occurred to me to open up the door for the guy ... and so I did ... smile ... and lol that is my big story of Justice for today ... lol ... I opened up a door and held the door open for another individual ... didn't have to do it, but it made me and the other guy coming in smile ... now I am not sure if that was an act of Justice or just plain curtesy, but either way it was pleasing enough that mention of it was made on this thread ... stupid little things sometimes are pretty cool ... I think part of Justice is curtesy

Really, something small like that can be pretty big. Something you think is small can really have a huge impact on a person. This is a dumb example, but bear with me: Imagine some guy got into a fight with his girlfriend on his cell phone and is now going on his way to kill her, and he storms by you. Now, seeing that he is angered—and maybe thinking he might not like you—naturally the last thing you would do is give him a smile or show some kind of friendly gesture. But imagine if you did...do you think it could change a whole course of events? It could. Something that small. Don't you feel happy when someone smiles at you, whereas if someone scowlingly glares at you, you either might feel anger or some other negative emotion.

So holding the door open for somebody, like you did, certainly is a nice gesture and can have the same effect (that is, making the person happy). Of course (being related to a lawyer I will borrow a legal expression) you have to 'take your victims as they come', meaning you can sometimes open the door and someone could act indifferently. For example, some feminist might feel offended that you would do such a thing (open the door for her), whereas conversely another women would be angered if you didn't hold the door open for her (this has happened to me). Also some people generally don't say "thanks" and stuff like that, but the important thing is to do what you know is right and for good intentions...If no one knows you are right God will know.

Anyway, I'll let others contribute

so ... anybody else have any thoughts about Justice ...

[onepence]

Justice Log

Baha'i date : 17 Kamal 163 (BE)

Woke up this morning thinking about Justice ... and wanting to read more from pilgrimbrent ... later in the day was blessed to have read some more of his writing/s ... technically well versed and flawless execution ... immensely happy to have this brother to be a part of this forum

Must everything be counted as either a reward or punishment?

such was my thought upon waking ... upon seeking Justice ... comparable to

Must everything be measured in accordance to economic terms ...
i.e. money

How does one put a price tag on humilty?

Is measuring Justice in strict terms of rewards and punishment the only way to understand Justice ? ... is there something more ... or what ???

I haven't really answered my question yet ... still thinking about it ...

personally I have been living in a near state of bliss ... is this the reward or the punishment ... lol *smile* ... I have also lived in anger(hell) before {not a fun place ... anger management classes taught anger is an emotional response to a percieved injustice ... ps don't get me started on the percieved injustices of this world ... *soft chuckle/s* ..}

Must everything be counted as either a reward or punishment?

oneness
the apostle dean
[counting his blessings with every breath taken]

[onepence]

Justice can only be properly understood within the context of the Administarive Order.

oneness
the apostle dean