What is the Hojjatieh Society?

All research or scholarship questions
onepence
Posts: 473
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Location: Longwood, FL, USA

What is the Hojjatieh Society?

Postby onepence » Tue May 30, 2006 10:49 am

if you do a search
on Baha'i Library online
for the term "Hojjatieh"
you will notice a "news" thread
that I started, http://bahai-library.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=529

... and I find it offensive that someone moved a different thread, http://bahai-library.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=803 , that I started in the "discussion " forum over to the "news" forum without at least discussioning with me, whether in private or in public, as to the need cause or justification into the movement and reclassification ...

just because, at this time no one wants to discuss
an official statement made on the web by the Baha'i Faith
does not mean that someone in the future, nor in the present,
does not want to discuss the issue ... nay far more worse is the case ... for the failure to discuss official statements often, not always, indicates severe apathy in a community ...

if thou needest proof
that I can discuss this issue
surely I can provide it

oneness
the apostle dean

onepence
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:44 pm
Location: Longwood, FL, USA

Postby onepence » Tue May 30, 2006 5:16 pm

the 12th and last Imam of the Shiite branch of Islam
was in Himself
the Way for man to govern himself
thus goverment
until Baha'u'llah

oneness
the apostle dean

Keyvan
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Location: Los Angeles

Postby Keyvan » Wed May 31, 2006 10:53 pm

the Hojjatieh society is a violent group created out of Shia extremists, whos sole purpose is to destroy the Baha'i community

additionally they believe that Imam Mahdi's "return" from "occultation" is imminent and that society must prepare as though they are at his advent

they were successful in persecuting Baha'i's in Iran for a century now, working with SAVAK, as well as independent organized attacks on Baha'i's and Baha'i properties and Holy sites.

Khomeini supposedly "prohibited" them when he came to power, but of course that was just a PR move which didnt have an effect anyway, considering that with his regime in power Baha'i persecution became a centralized act of government and there was no need for affiliation with the independent Hojjatieh.

however the Hojjatieh society has been coming back in recent years. we can see some of their contemporary destructions and persecutions in relatively recent news. Ahmadinejad is not a member, but a sympathist of the Hojjatieh society.

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:06 am

I also read they believe that since immorality is to accompany the Return, they actually try to promote immorality! (This is the opposite problem of some Christian groups which oddly (though arguably less corruptly) try to prevent some of the promised signs they understand to be heralding (in a negative light) the new Day such as world government. I say this is "odd" because if they believe God has promised it will happen, it is strange to try to prevent it...)

Of course we as Bahá'ís believe, the "world government" foretold in the Bible already happened with the Umayyad dynasty conquering the civilized "world" of that time, just as we we believe the immorality is also clearly arrived...

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:16 am

By the way, after looking at this on-site book (found after doing a search on mark of the beast), I thought this book could really be turned into an awesome movie...

Keyvan
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Postby Keyvan » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:13 pm

brettz9 wrote:
Of course we as Bahá'ís believe, the "world government" foretold in the Bible already happened with the Umayyad dynasty conquering the civilized "world" of that time, just as we we believe the immorality is also clearly arrived...


what specifically are you referring to?


from my understanding the world government prophecised in the Bible; the Universal Sharia ushered by Imam Mahdi, is coming to be now, and will establish itself with the Commonwealth


I havent seen anything in the Writings validifying Sunni Administrative beliefs

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:26 pm

'Abdu'l-Bahá interprets the "beast" of Revelation here as the Umayyad dynasty: http://bahai-library.com/writings/abdulbaha/saq/11.html

This "beast" according to the Bible (and as the Umayyad dynasty) was not a good thing.

The problem is that many Christians, being that they are using their own minds to try to understand the Scrripture, rather than through the guidance of 'He, the Spirit of Truth' (Muhammad and now the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh), believe that these negative passages about global oppression will refer to something still farther into the future, and surmise it will be the U.N. For just one Christian source supposing the U.N. to be the beast (with some supposed scriptural proof): http://www.bible-research.org/beast.htm . In fact, I would think that this constituency's clinging to this view (without enough of us Bahá'ís studying and using the proofs as 'Abdu'l-Bahá countless times urged us to do in order to be able to prove otherwise) is a great cause for a lack of peace in the world as they ardently resist strengthening the U.N. (and why it is only through means beyond their control, that the U.S. is, out of necessity, being drawn into greater participation in world institutions). (This is not to say that there are not legitimate concerns with reform of the U.N.)

This so-called 'world government' (of that time) is quite different (and, no doubt, a challenge by divine design) from the positive world government referred to in the Bahá'í Writings (and other passages of the Bible) for which the world is in such desperate need.

So, no, you are correct, there is nothing here validating the Sunni administrative beliefs (on the contrary, the usurpation is referred to in our Writings). However, although the Imamate is quite emphasized in our Writings, there is one interesting comment of 'Abdu'l-Bahá here in the authentic Mahmúd's Diary:

Yes, the value and greatness of these travels are not known now but will be apparent later on. As we had no other intention except to offer devotion to the Threshold of the One True God, we were assisted and the brightness of divine favor and grace appeared....

At the time of Muhammad's migration to Medina under divine protection, Abú Bakr, was with Him. He said to Abú Bakr, `Be not afraid, God is with us.' These very words became afterwards the cause of his succession to the Caliphate because the word `with us' included him also. Many proofs and arguments based on these words have been advanced. The value of this bounty, too, is not known now.


This could not endorse the Caliphate's full legitimacy (as that would be quite contradictory), of course (though perhaps to some degree as our Writings do with emphasizing (but not over-emphasizing) the station of Peter as the first Pope?)...I think that would be reasonable since although the "consultation" of the Sunnis should be subordinate to the monarchic authority of the Shi'ih original Twelve Imams (as with the monarchic Guardian over the legislative Universal House of Justice), the principle is to some degree nevertheless valid. Of course, consultation alone (without divine sanction) is nothing but a mess when it comes to establishing a legitimate infallible Successorship!...

onepence
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Postby onepence » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:40 pm

ok
excellent discussion
I enjoy seeing and partcipating in consolutation.
it is fascinating if given the chance what the human soul can express

I suppose some who wish to destroy God could teach
in an incomplete view of Islam
that the twelfth Inman could always be me or thee
and the government shall always be "manifest"

onepence
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:44 pm
Location: Longwood, FL, USA

Postby onepence » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:15 pm

here we go
some allow the state to define the Inman
instead of the Inman defining the state

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modu ... oryid=4142

But nothing alarmed Baha'is more than the disclosure this spring of a confidential 2005 letter sent to the Iranian Ministry of Information, the Revolutionary Guard and police. It said the "Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, had instructed ...

onepence
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:44 pm
Location: Longwood, FL, USA

Postby onepence » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:50 pm

yea ... I don't like it
but better to know
from whence the blow

to laugh

divine

oneness
dh

//////////////////////

Nigeria: Remembering Imam Khomeini

http://allafrica.com/stories/200606020566.html

Daily Trust (Abuja)

OPINION
June 2, 2006
Posted to the web June 2, 2006

Adamu Adamu

http://allafrica.com/stories/200606020566.html

Whenever I recall the moment we sat before him that late morning in February 1981, and listened as he recounted the misfortune that had befallen Islam, I can still not imagine how my heart was able to take it all - the overpowering nature and quality of the emotion, the rarity of this great privilege, the sanctity of the occasion; and especially, the magnetism of the physical presence of the personality who had come in every way to symbolise and define Islam for this age. This was the Imam Khomeini (quddisa sirruh al-sharif), the scholar, philosopher, mystic, poet and revolutionary who led the Islamic Revolution in Iran, which presaged the dawn of the era of freedom, not just for Muslims, but for all people who were oppressed.

The revolution was itself a novelty on many counts. While all revolutions prior to the one he led had sought to break away from the past, his own led back to it-to the origin and mainspring of the divine values from which Western materialism, in tandem with international Zionism, had taken away the world. The Islamic Revolution was unique in another way. No matter how spontaneous and natural they might have appeared to historians, all the revolutions before the Islamic Revolution were carefully planned and executed by personages behind the scene, often far away from the theatre of events.

The American and alien roots of the Russian Bolshevik Revolution that stole away victory from the Mensheviks, and the German-Masonic roots of the Revolutionary Reign of Terror that stole the French Revolution from the people of France are good indicators of the hands that rock the cradle of revolutions. But Khomeini (quddisa sirruh al-sharif) was opposed by all the powers that were, largely because his revolution was the only one that was not sponsored by international Zionism. Neither the opposition of the government of the United States of America nor the endorsement and strong expression of support for the Shah by its president; neithe r the subtle opposition by the Russians nor the belated, precipitate visit of support for the Shah by the Chinese premier; neither the inquisitorial unanimity of Western governments nor the more painful silence of Muslim governments could scare or intimidate the Imam, who depended upon none but God.

And even when he finally prevailed, and succeeded in raising the banner of Islam aloft, they all thought it was going to be business as usual, because they believed one or the other remnant of the pitiful plague was behind him. The Shah himself was quoted as saying ...

<><><><>
oneness
dh


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