hmm
been wonderin about a subject for quite sometime
What would happen if a crazed individual suceeded in killing all nine members of The Universal House of Justice ?
Could the NSA's elect another Universal House of Justice ?
Would the NSA's voluntarily dissolve ?
Would the Amrican NSA still exist yet refuse to consider electing another Universal House of Justice until such time as all NSA's are operational ?
ie not until the NSA of Persia is present will the American Baha'i community participate in any elections
in all honesty ... the basic question is mute for me ... for i chose to support the NSA of America in all her past/present and future decisions .
it is ... well ... just an interesting question ... one that i wonder if any other individuals have thought of ... and what conclussions they have reached ... and why they have reached whatever conclussions they have decided upon ...
just curious ... if anybody else has pondered
What would happen if a crazed individual suceeded in killing all nine members of The Universal House of Justice
The Universal House of Justice and NSA's
As to your question, onepence (welcome back by the way),
The Baha'i Faith has, as promised would be so by Baha'u'llah, maintained its integrity, through already extremely challenging circumstances, particularly the case of the passing of Shoghi Effendi, so as far as concerns about what the U.S. NSA, etc. would do in such circumstances, while there is nothing to prevent even an NSA from, God forbid, breaking the Covenant, there is no reason to think that there should be so much turmoil so as to cause the promise in the Bible and the Writings to fail--that this is the Day that shall not be followed by night...
"Every institution of this divinely created Order is one more refuge for a distraught populace; every soul illumined by the light of the sacred Message is one more link in the oneness of mankind, one more servant ministering to the needs of an ailing world. Even should the Bahá'í communities, in the years immediately ahead, be cut off from the World Centre or from one another--as some already have been--the Bahá'ís will neither halt nor hesitate; they will continue to pursue their objectives, guided by their Spiritual Assemblies and led by the Counsellors, the members of the Auxiliary Boards and their assistants...."
(From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to the Bahá'ís of the world, November 3, 1980, in Lights of Guidance, no. 430)
The Baha'i Faith has, as promised would be so by Baha'u'llah, maintained its integrity, through already extremely challenging circumstances, particularly the case of the passing of Shoghi Effendi, so as far as concerns about what the U.S. NSA, etc. would do in such circumstances, while there is nothing to prevent even an NSA from, God forbid, breaking the Covenant, there is no reason to think that there should be so much turmoil so as to cause the promise in the Bible and the Writings to fail--that this is the Day that shall not be followed by night...
The Guardians are the evidence of the maturity of mankind in the sense that at long last men have progressed to the point of having one world, and of needing one world management for human affairs. In the spiritual realm they have also reached the point where God could leave, in human hands (i.e., the Guardians'), guided directly by the Bab and Bahá'u'lláh, as the Master states in His Will, the affairs of His Faith for this Dispensation. This is what is meant by 'this is the day which will not be followed by the night'. In this Dispensation, divine guidance flows on to us in this world after the Prophet's ascension, through first the Master, and then the Guardians. If a person can accept Bahá'u'lláh's function, it should not present any difficulty to them to also accept what He has ordained a divinely-guided individual in matters pertaining to His Faith."
(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, November 25, 1948: Bahá'í News, No. 232, p. 8, June 1950, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1047)
"If a person can accept Bahá'u'lláh's function, it should not present any difficulty to them to also accept what He has ordained a divinely-guided individual in matters pertaining to His Faith."
hmm ... yes ... i was thinking along similiar lines ...
that eventually we could recognize
"a divinely-guided individual in matters pertaining to His Faith."
but ... because the material manifestation of the Guardian
has ended with Shoghi Effendi ...
i would think a more Ancient yet modern term of Apostle would apply.
personally i find it very sad and disturbing
when i find indivduals that lean to or have accepted
any other Guardian beside Shoghi Effendi
just plain sad and very disturbing
it is like why would anyone what to be called Master
beside Abdu'l Baha
*smile*
but the term Apostle ... now that I can understand ...
very universal in nature ... with Scriptual bases
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back to original thought about
"should the Bahá'í communities, in the years immediately ahead, be cut off from the World Centre"
"the Bahá'ís will neither halt nor hesitate; they will continue to pursue their objectives,"
the key here being objectives
i guess that is my basic question
"does any single NSA have the Scriptual Authority to call for an emergency Universal House of Justice election"
personally ... i do not think so ... but i am open to discussion on this matter
hmm ... yes ... i was thinking along similiar lines ...
that eventually we could recognize
"a divinely-guided individual in matters pertaining to His Faith."
but ... because the material manifestation of the Guardian
has ended with Shoghi Effendi ...
i would think a more Ancient yet modern term of Apostle would apply.
personally i find it very sad and disturbing
when i find indivduals that lean to or have accepted
any other Guardian beside Shoghi Effendi
just plain sad and very disturbing
it is like why would anyone what to be called Master
beside Abdu'l Baha
*smile*
but the term Apostle ... now that I can understand ...
very universal in nature ... with Scriptual bases
/////////
back to original thought about
"should the Bahá'í communities, in the years immediately ahead, be cut off from the World Centre"
"the Bahá'ís will neither halt nor hesitate; they will continue to pursue their objectives,"
the key here being objectives
i guess that is my basic question
"does any single NSA have the Scriptual Authority to call for an emergency Universal House of Justice election"
personally ... i do not think so ... but i am open to discussion on this matter
Here are a few quotations, which while they I think answer your question (i.e., no NSA has any right by itself to call for elections), I would venture to say that the eventuality of some catastrophe befalling all of the members perhaps ought to be considered by the House as an amendment to its Constitution, as its Constitution seems to make no mention of such a case (as hopefully unlikely as it may be).
A few others of only tangential relevance:
And now, concerning the House of Justice which God hath ordained as the source of all good and freed from all error, it must be elected by universal suffrage, that is, by the believers. Its members must be manifestations of the fear of God and daysprings of knowledge and understanding, must be steadfast in God's faith and the well-wishers of all mankind. By this House is meant the Universal House of Justice, that is, in all countries a secondary House of Justice must be instituted, and these secondary Houses of Justice must elect the members of the Universal one. Unto this body all things must be referred. It enacteth all ordinances and regulations that are not to be found in the explicit Holy Text. By this body all the difficult problems are to be resolved and the Guardian of the Cause of God is its sacred head and the distinguished member for life of that body. Should he not attend in person its deliberations, he must appoint one to represent him.
The National Spiritual Assembly shall have exclusive jurisdiction and authority over all the activities and affairs of the Bahá'í Faith throughout its area.
(Constitution of the Universal House of Justice, section III.2)
A few others of only tangential relevance:
If at the time of an election the Universal House of Justice shall consider that it is impracticable or unwise to hold the International Convention it shall determine how the election shall take place.
(ibid, Section V.1.6)
the Universal House of Justice may from time to time provide for quorums of less than the full membership for specified classes of business.
(ibid, Section V.4.3)
brettz9 wrote:
... I would venture to say that the eventuality of some catastrophe befalling all of the members perhaps ought to be considered by the House as an amendment to its Constitution, as its Constitution seems to make no mention of such a case (as hopefully unlikely as it may be).
yes ... that is the basic conclusion i came up with also ...
and ... i think it may be very hard for some believers to accept this fact ...
it is interesting to ponder why The Universal House of Justice did not add such a clause into our Constitution.
... is it perhaps it would show a lack of Faith ? ...
or
some other {unspecified} reason
also ... in such a scenario ... what would become of our Faith ...
the ramifications to this is enormous
and thus becomes God's Will ... not ours but God's ...
it truly boggles my mind
why such a clause was not included
the only answer i can come up with is that is was "God's will"
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brettz9
thank you for posting your thoughts here
it gives me great pleasure and hope
that we both see that there is no clause in our Constitution that would cover such an unlikely event
Hello onepence and all,
I don't think at all that it shows a lack of Faith...Maybe it is a sign of Faith if they might have already understood that our Writings might preclude such a possibility. But, as God doeth as He willeth, that's why I even dared make a suggestion. Just because the House is infallibly guided doesn't, I would imagine, mean that they could not come to that guidance from human factors, just as they themselves indicate to the effect that they can benefit from more information, etc. in making their decisions.
best wishes,
Brett
... is it perhaps it would show a lack of Faith ? ...
I don't think at all that it shows a lack of Faith...Maybe it is a sign of Faith if they might have already understood that our Writings might preclude such a possibility. But, as God doeth as He willeth, that's why I even dared make a suggestion. Just because the House is infallibly guided doesn't, I would imagine, mean that they could not come to that guidance from human factors, just as they themselves indicate to the effect that they can benefit from more information, etc. in making their decisions.
best wishes,
Brett
"Maybe it is a sign of Faith"
yes ... i would concur with that ...
hmmm
i suppose the reason/s as to why no clause of catastrophe is included in our Constitution
r as varied and diverse as there are individuals
*smile*
my theory is rather long ... and perhaps very convulated ... smile ...
something along the lines of The Covenant and How God's Voice will never leave mankind ... eventually ... after many many many generations {hundreds and hundreds of years }of training ... our Apostle shall arrive ... in the mean time ... individuals must continue to have Faith in our developing Institutions
perhaps this will be the only way ...
that the majority of mankind can obtain Faith
by {once again} witnessing sumpreme sacrifice before being able to {again} believe
yes ... i would concur with that ...
hmmm
i suppose the reason/s as to why no clause of catastrophe is included in our Constitution
r as varied and diverse as there are individuals
*smile*
my theory is rather long ... and perhaps very convulated ... smile ...
something along the lines of The Covenant and How God's Voice will never leave mankind ... eventually ... after many many many generations {hundreds and hundreds of years }of training ... our Apostle shall arrive ... in the mean time ... individuals must continue to have Faith in our developing Institutions
perhaps this will be the only way ...
that the majority of mankind can obtain Faith
by {once again} witnessing sumpreme sacrifice before being able to {again} believe
"In the ages to come, though the Cause of God may rise and grow a hundredfold and the shade of the Sadratu’l-Muntahá shelter all mankind, yet this present century shall stand unrivalled, for it hath witnessed the breaking of that Morn and the rising of that Sun. This century is, verily, the source of His Light and the dayspring of His Revelation. Future ages and generations shall behold the diffusion of its radiance and the manifestations of its signs."
‘Abdu’l-Bahá
‘Abdu’l-Bahá