Administrative Order apostates

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onepence
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Location: Longwood, FL, USA

Administrative Order apostates

Postby onepence » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:56 am

hmmm ... a little bit of a touchy subject ...

but one that i seek a concrete answer to.

I understand as an enrolled member of the Baha'i Faith I am not to speak disparringly of Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l Baha , the Guardian, or any aspect of the Administrative Order.

I also understand that i am to follow all the laws of the government in which i reside.

What would be the correct response be if a government official asked me to deny my realtionship to our beloved Guardian Shoghi Effendi and The Universal House of Justice ?

tia for all y'alls responses

oneness
dh

brettz9
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Postby brettz9 » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:22 am

To all administrative regulations which the civil authorities have issued from time to time, or will issue in the future in that land, as in all other countries, the Bahá'í community, faithful to its sacred obligations towards its government, and conscious of its civic duties, has yielded, and will continue to yield implicit obedience. Its immediate closing of its schools in Persia is a proof of this. To such orders, however, as are tantamount to a recantation of their faith by its members, or constitute an act of disloyalty to its spiritual, its basic and God-given principles and precepts, it will stubbornly refuse to bow, preferring imprisonment, deportation and all manner of persecution, including death--as already suffered by the twenty thousand martyrs that have laid down their lives in the path of its Founders--rather than follow the dictates of a temporal authority requiring it to renounce its allegiance to its cause.

(God Passes By, p. 372)

BruceDLimber
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Location: Rockville, Maryland, USA

Re: Administrative Order apostates

Postby BruceDLimber » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:09 am


Greetings!

onepence wrote:What would be the correct response be if a government official asked me to deny my realtionship to our beloved Guardian Shoghi Effendi and The Universal House of Justice ?


Very simply, the proper response is that governments have NO BUSINESS trying to dictate religious beliefs to individuals as this is strictly a matter of individual conscience!

End of story.

Peace,

Bruce

British_Bahai
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:27 am

Re: Administrative Order apostates

Postby British_Bahai » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:11 am

onepence wrote:What would be the correct response be if a government official asked me to deny my realtionship to our beloved Guardian Shoghi Effendi and The Universal House of Justice ?
Looking closer at your question, youre saying that a particular gov is agreeing with Bahaullah and is telling you NOT to agree with Shoghi Effendi or the Universal House of Justice (i.e. forcing you to become some sort of covenant breaker, beacuse by definition, cov.breakers dont agree with the legitimacy of the defined lineage of Guardianship)

Realistically speaking, I dont think that situation will ever arise, because it just wont. Many reasons, such as the will of god (i.e. we as bahais believe that governments will get better, amongst many things, and eventually the Most Great Peace will happen....there are many other reasons..... but personally no i dont think that it will happen.

Originally, i thought you were asking whether a gov will ask you to renounce the fact that youre a bahai.

British_Bahai
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:27 am

Re: Administrative Order apostates

Postby British_Bahai » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:13 am

BruceDLimber wrote:Very simply, the proper response is that governments have NO BUSINESS trying to dictate religious beliefs to individuals as this is strictly a matter of individual conscience!
Very true, and it is in actual fact against human rights to have religion forced onto anyone. Random fact ;-)

onepence
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:44 pm
Location: Longwood, FL, USA

Re: Administrative Order apostates

Postby onepence » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:46 am

british_bahai wrote:
onepence wrote:What would be the correct response be if a government official asked me to deny my realtionship to our beloved Guardian Shoghi Effendi and The Universal House of Justice ?
Looking closer at your question, youre saying that a particular gov is agreeing with Bahaullah and is telling you NOT to agree with Shoghi Effendi or the Universal House of Justice (i.e. forcing you to become some sort of covenant breaker, beacuse by definition, cov.breakers dont agree with the legitimacy of the defined lineage of Guardianship)

Realistically speaking, I dont think that situation will ever arise, because it just wont. Many reasons, such as the will of god (i.e. we as bahais believe that governments will get better, amongst many things, and eventually the Most Great Peace will happen....there are many other reasons..... but personally no i dont think that it will happen.

Originally, i thought you were asking whether a gov will ask you to renounce the fact that youre a bahai.


yes ... you read the hidden yet manifest question correctly ...

*smile*

Realistically ... i think the question is legitimate ... and answered by the Quote given by brettz9 ... that is why i had nothing further to say ...
question asked and answered ... so ... all is well

but ... since you did notice the hidden question ... i thought it would be appropriate to comment that you are correct in assertating my concerns ... thank you

however ... i am very concerned that those that seek to have our Guardianship become mainfest in material living men will seek out and cause grant harm to members of the Baha'i Faith ... so ... i asked the question ... what is the response to such individuals ... if forced ... do we give consent or do we something else ... by the looks of the Quote we are to do something else ...

so yeah ... in brief ... i am very concerned that this will become an issue


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